This week is an interesting one in this series covering HBO's series Succession. In contrast to the first four episodes, these two work together to tell a single Storyform spread out among both. And while the story continues to develop towards an inevitable end, being able to read the specific thematics underlying this group effort proves a bit challenging.
Further exploration (and future episodes) will help us define the final Storyform.
00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:09.000 Hello everyone welcome to season five Episode 17 of the writers room.
00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:19.000 Today we're going to talk about the third part of the first season of HBO secession which will be episodes five and six.
00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:37.000 So five is I went to market and six is whose side anyone does the names of the two episodes. And what we're going to do is talk about the two episodes, how they fit in with the previous four, and see from a dramatic point of view, from a story form pointing
00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:42.000 to see perhaps where the first season is going.
00:00:42.000 --> 00:01:04.000 And also, the storytelling within the individual episodes themselves, because if you watch the previous one from last week, which was episode three and four appeared to me that are what seemed to be the obvious direction that they were going in one second.
00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:06.000 Let me just bring up.
00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:14.000 I can do this fight.
00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:18.000 Here, login here.
00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:22.000 Alright, so if you look at the previous.
00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:34.000 So here we have the first four episodes, 123 and four. And in the previous one in three so wanting to add
00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:41.000 come down here wanting to have conceiving as the objective story concern.
00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:45.000 And they shared that they had the same, they were in the same area.
00:01:45.000 --> 00:02:01.000 At the same sort of thematic focus, and which was conceived which is like coming up with ideas getting the idea that you should take the business in a different direction, all within the context of a succession of power, who should take over that kind
00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:02.000 of thing.
00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:05.000 Well when it got to four last claim.
00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:15.000 It looked like it was switching into being. So, within Informatica within the dramatic model of psychology.
00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:31.000 When you start talking about conceiving, the next three that you need to talk about in order to tell a complete story as being becoming, and conceptualize it all work together in this family of the magic concerns underneath the domain of psychology so
00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:41.000 when you're working with people's mentalities, and that's the kind of thing that's creating all the conflict. The way people go about thinking about things planning things the way they behave that stuff.
00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:50.000 These are the four signposts that you hit along the way, you stay in one for a little while and then you shift into the next one and then you shift into the next one.
00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:59.000 And by the end of the story from the reason why it feels like a complete story is because you've gone through all four and you get an all four equal attention.
00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:14.000 And the idea of being that the mind is going through each of these signposts trying to figure out where exactly the problem is looking at all the different concerns all the different issues to see like okay wait, what is this.
00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:26.000 How can we get past the problems that everybody is created because of their mentality. So the first three episodes were in conceiving. And the fourth one made the shift into being.
00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:34.000 So the, the thought was, well then definitely the next team would be being, that would be great that would fit the pattern.
00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:39.000 And then it would fit into the model and everything would be perfect.
00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:58.000 I personally don't think that that happened because I have a really hard life and figure out what the actual two story forms were four, five and six within a context of be.
00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:01.000 So let's just talk about.
00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:04.000 Make sure everybody's here Yeah, okay.
00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:14.000 Let me. Let's talk about the actual dynamics first.
00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:18.000 Does anybody else have that anybody that actually saw the, the show.
00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:27.000 Did you see it still in being or perhaps to five and six or maybe in other locations. Anybody have any thoughts on that.
00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:30.000 Let me bring this up.
00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:32.000 No. Okay.
00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:45.000 I'll just, I'll keep talking, feel free to interrupt me at any time because I have a basic idea of what's going on. It's very interesting. It may happen by the time we reach the end of the first season that I might read categorize some stuff, or it just
00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:49.000 revealed something else which is really super interesting.
00:04:49.000 --> 00:05:04.000 Nobody's ever done this before like taking a series, and going through each episode and taking into the dramatic historic farming process. So it's likely going to show some stuff that I didn't even know was going to be in there because I'm, I have a somewhat
00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:14.000 of a plan but I am willing to move it around to see like what actions there, as opposed to some sort of confirmation bias thing that's going on.
00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:28.000 So, in five and six so the first ones I went to market, and it starts off with Logan the father he's back in charge right it's like I'm back and it's going to be great.
00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:40.000 And he wants to get into local broadcast TV because he thinks that's that's going to save the company, and his kids think that's completely crazy because no one watches TV anymore.
00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:45.000 It's all online and him doing that is going to sink, the company.
00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:55.000 And when they see him pouring the coffee. And it just spills out everywhere. It's like whoa is his mind not in the right spot is there something wrong here.
00:05:55.000 --> 00:06:11.000 It kicks off this drawing from Kendall to eventually work its way into a vote of no confidence for Logan as the CTO, which my limited business experience.
00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:27.000 The board all gets together and if a majority loads for no confidence they can kick them out, and then they put it in somebody else so it's a very subversive act, and it runs through both, five, and six.
00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:40.000 So it's like it's a it's a thread that is kicks off. I mean it's the first time we've heard about it. In five, and then at the end of six, and actually concludes.
00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:44.000 So, what I was thinking was.
00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:49.000 There's actually one story forum for both five and six.
00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:58.000 So that's the whole plot to go towards a vote for no confidence begins in five Kindle this this whole thing.
00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:14.000 Kendall this this whole thing. At the end of five there's a bit of a turn. When Logan, apparently can remember what the heck you the little Thanksgiving game that they were playing.
00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:16.000 And then in six.
00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:20.000 It all comes to a head where at the end of six.
00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:32.000 Kendall does that thing where he's like not even he gets stuck in traffic he can't make it back in time tries to do the phone call. And it doesn't quite work out the way that he had wanted it to.
00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:35.000 Anybody have any comments on that.
00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:38.000 Any thoughts.
00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:42.000 So my only thought was
00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:45.000 my only thought was that I felt like the.
00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:54.000 I think that's interesting with you're saying that it has one across, because it felt like the second one was a lot more clear.
00:07:54.000 --> 00:08:09.000 And the, what was happening and because it felt like the first, I like both episodes but, yeah, yeah. The first one there was a lot of thanksgiving stuff and a lot of family stuff, but certainly it's like there's stuff that kicks off.
00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:18.000 So for instance, if I'm just telling you how I was thinking about it If dad over pouring the coffee, right.
00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:22.000 Then you have Episode Five.
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.000 And then at the end of five.
00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:28.000 Dad hits Kendall son. Right.
00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:36.000 Which is like, all right, that's, that's enough. And Jerry, the lawyers like, all right, I've seen enough. I'm on your side.
00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:49.000 So there's things that are happening that are all part of the same headspace so you could put these two together, started the beginning so at the end it's like well that's actually, that feels somewhat complete I mean I want to know what exactly what
00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:50.000 happens.
00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:52.000 And I'd love to know what happened before.
00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:03.000 But I think since like this is its own its own thing, its own complete sort of feeling there. So it's really interesting because the first two episodes have their own story form.
00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:15.000 Three had its own forehead its own two and then now all of a sudden we're doing five or six, which is really interesting because we have 10 episodes.
00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:36.000 And so, dividing that by four signposts. There are some that are going to have to be combined together. Anyways, in order to get, especially if you have an episode that kind of did its own thing and it wasn't really a part of the entire arc of the whole
00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:47.000 season, so that'll be interesting to see if that plays out that that that's my current thinking about that, and the more as I work through this I'm sure that's what it's going to turn out to be.
00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:59.000 So then yeah like leave I was saying in Episode Six was much more very objective story, you know, just. Are you on my side and then on his side trying to figure out who's going to be there.
00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:06.000 And then at the end, there is the vote of no confidence.
00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:17.000 Kimball loses horribly, and everyone voted against Logan is now fires, right.
00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:22.000 So, it didn't quite work out the way that they had wanted to.
00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:31.000 And I feel like that's, this is a great first story driver. This is a great middle point. And this is a fantastic, nd.
00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:39.000 And I think what you're going to find it since we're at episode six here in as 10 episode season.
00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:41.000 This.
00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:56.000 The vote of no confidence going downhill. I believe is going to be the midpoint of the entire season, so that if we looked at the story form of an entire season.
00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:04.000 It feels very much like a midpoint so dad's sick. What the heck is that going to do then dead kills everybody that went against him.
00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:10.000 And now we're on the second half of the story form.
00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:29.000 So if one, two, and three are the conceding verbs of signpost then four, five, and six would be whatever the second a signpost.
00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:37.000 And then we hit the midpoint, which is, we'll just call it the vote of no confidence.
00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:51.000 Fantastic. So then we have 789 and 10 to wrap everything up and it will likely go faster it's always in the beginning of a narrative stuff takes a longer time because you have to set up the potential for everything and explain all the threads.
00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:55.000 But then as you get closer and closer to the end of the narrative.
00:11:55.000 --> 00:12:04.000 It's great john Dusenberry had this like analogy of gear shift so like first gear takes forever and second gear there again by time you get to fix like super quick.
00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:22.000 And then you wrap it all up because everything is you've already explained everything so everything's just all wound up tight and you finish the narrative so I'm almost 1,000% positive that this would be the actual midpoint of the series of the series,
00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:26.000 whatever that ends up being heard so far ends up being.
00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:31.000 So, Episode Five episode six, and then.
00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:34.000 Okay, the vote of confidence.
00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:42.000 So, if you were to categorize well let's put it this way let's go back to.
00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:46.000 Let's go to.
00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:51.000 So go back to some texts, and we have conceiving being conceptualizing becoming.
00:12:51.000 --> 00:13:00.000 So, Episode Five was the Thanksgiving one or kind of started off and then episode six was the move towards the vote of confidence.
00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:06.000 Out of these four, which one seems to be.
00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:18.000 Is everybody in agreement that it is, we're still in psychology of course right and then there's a lot of stuff going on there. I don't think we drastically changed the tone and genre of the series.
00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:27.000 Is there one of the things that stands out in terms of that subject matter of the vote of no confidence.
00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:39.000 Maybe becoming or conceiving I'm not really sure though, becoming okay so then becoming. How would you see that like the transformation of the company.
00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:40.000 Maybe.
00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:46.000 Okay. And then the second part would be
00:13:46.000 --> 00:14:02.000 conceiving worth considering. Coming up with an idea, or is it conceptualizing essentially making a plan, isn't a vote of no confidence making a plan to overthrow Logan.
00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:14.000 Yeah, I mean, completely This is why I got kind of, like, oh, wait a second, the six episode is 100% conceptualizing. There's scheming, there's manipulating.
00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:29.000 There's okay how, who do we have, like, let's write down the people that are on our side, I mean the the show that everything is called Whose side are you on which is because you're trying to conceptualize envision how this is going to turn out and you're
00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:32.000 envisioning of it, is what's creating all the conflict.
00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:48.000 Like, do we have this personalized side like the reason why Kindle go visit that one lady, that's in the hospital is not because of some worry over the transformation of it it's like I gotta make sure she's going to do fit into my vision for this.
00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:53.000 Otherwise, everything's going to fall apart because he knows how his dad's gonna behave.
00:14:53.000 --> 00:15:01.000 There's no being part aspect to it, it's like 1,000% conceptualizing like from beginning to end.
00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:15.000 And the difference between conceptualizing and seeing conceptualizing is master manipulating putting the different pieces together. And if you want the best example of this is the film, a simple plan, which is essentially if you want to see conflict over
00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:21.000 people when they try to make plans that film is 1,000% conceptualizing.
00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:30.000 And it's like getting all the pieces together and who you can get on your side and, you know, manipulating people to do things that you want them to do so that you can get what you want.
00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:42.000 Whereas conceiving is just coming up with the idea like what are we going to do, how are we going to solve this problem, can we bring in some some way of solving it.
00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:51.000 As opposed to actually putting all the pieces together they've already had in the first signpost, they had all the conceiving and that got exhausted.
00:15:51.000 --> 00:16:10.000 And then we stepped away to do the being at the ball. And now, I believe we're moving into conceptualize and have you remember from last week I wasn't sure which one, because I know I've done enough story forms that rarely goes from conceiving to becoming,
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:18.000 it usually goes conceding the conceptual idea, or conceding to be and kind of hopes that it would keep doing being.
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:33.000 But there is no you know temporarily adopting a lifestyle. Being aspect of either the fifth or the sixth episode, come back into here.
00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:45.000 If you were to read this about. I went to market, and then going to Thanksgiving, a huge part of it is why is you in which is Logan's brother strange brother.
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:52.000 Why did he get brought to Thanksgiving. Why did
00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:55.000 you know why didn't Marcia invite him.
00:16:55.000 --> 00:17:10.000 And there's a point where Logan talks about well everybody's got their game right like even Marsha is playing a game that's conceptualizing that's like okay who's gonna, Like all the psychological manipulation is when it comes to business politics and
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:16.000 company politics. That's what's going on there.
00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:19.000 And when he did the.
00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:29.000 When he had Kendall come over and have a burger with and that was here right so that was in Which side do you want so that's 1,000% conceptualizing, but I'm not sure.
00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:34.000 There is some,
00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:45.000 some doing aspects. So if I came back into my apologies if I'm all over the place but this is a rare occurrence here.
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:58.000 So, if being is the where we are, where our focuses, that would mean that to compliment that the relationships, would be much more about doing.
00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:04.000 So the conflict that would be on a smaller scale between people would be the actual doing of things.
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:11.000 And in, definitely, five and a little bit of six but definitely five.
00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:22.000 There is a lot of Dhoni when it comes to Greg, and Tom, which is basically, you got to do this for money, you got to go in there, you know, tread all the evidence all that stuff.
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:38.000 I could definitely see doing there as being the relationship aspect, because I'm not so sure there's a lot of Father Son stuff going on in this five and six so if we were to look at the three lines here.
00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:41.000 and the main character.
00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:49.000 influence character objective story and then relationship.
00:18:49.000 --> 00:19:04.000 The main relationships in five are Tom and Gregg, And then there's a really strong between you and Logan, like this, the brother is intense, like so.
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:14.000 Because I was thinking about the relationship, and you know the interesting thing is that, that certainly UN is a strange from the family.
00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:19.000 And
00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:37.000 there's I mean there was also the Marcia invited her son which nobody knew who he was and, you know, not that he was a strange but to sort of bring the strangers into the family, I mean it's sort of.
00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:53.000 Yes, that's brilliant, what would you say about that as far as I kind of got, I didn't get to watch episode six, but I I watched up, but I caught up to up to episode five so he's like, Oh, I'm so excited for today.
00:19:53.000 --> 00:20:04.000 So excited for today. Yeah so inviting the sun, inviting me when that's all conceptualizing stuff. And that's what it's her.
00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:16.000 She got one on told me about this. Why is your incoming y z.
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:26.000 There's no way I'm voting against my brother. There's a conspiracy you're all Vipers like he's there to tell everybody what's what. Right.
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:33.000 I mean, if anything new. And here's a really strong and someone's character.
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:39.000 You're all a bunch of papers.
00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:54.000 Now there's another relationship, and just because I know the, the two seasons that are going on and it should have just kind of like a side thing going on right now, besides story form, which picks up for sure in the second season she has a much bigger
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:56.000 role.
00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:06.000 And so I'm purposely avoiding it until we reach the end of the season we can backtrack and bring on there, because the whole politics thing in her getting married.
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:13.000 Not that it's not essential. But in the scope of the. If you were to talk about secession.
00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:31.000 It's all father son who's taking over the company objective sorry for that first season and or her stories story forum, especially going to meet the guy that she used to hang out with is most definitely a secondary story form that's branching off of this
00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:44.000 one. But my plan is to come back I just want to make sure I address it so doesn't seem like I'm completely avoiding it all together. Because it's, it's definitely there and she has her own stuff going on with grade.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:59.000 I'm sorry, Greg, Tom, I was getting mixed up with her husband's got a whole, the whole prenup thing that's going on there. But certainly, even their conversations when it comes to the prenup and what all that means.
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:03.000 It's very much in a conceptualizing headspace.
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:14.000 As you know, like, Well, I'm not the kind of person that would even look at a prenup, it's like we're already married like he's so into that space. The.
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:26.000 If you were to come and look at what's underneath conceptualizing who people really are their sense of themselves, their circumstances and obviously the situations going on.
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:40.000 These are heaven fanatic elements that are playing through both five and six, as opposed to knowledge thought ability and desire, there, there is some knowledge as to like, who's on our side but it's not.
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:51.000 It's more about what are they going to do, and how can we get them to do what we want them to do as opposed to just the fact that we know for sure who it is and we just got to kind of figure our way through it.
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:57.000 It's not, there's not a lot of time that's spent on that.
00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:02.000 So, let me go back
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:14.000 and just because the nature of the fact that it's, I'll be doing a lot of talking but, you know, just like Victoria did if you if you feel like interrupting, please do and if this feels like way off base let me know that feeling this is what is going
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:14.000 on here.
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:22.000 here. If we looked at the end of violence six, the vote of real confidence.
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.000 How does that end up.
00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:32.000 That one, like a failure, bad for me.
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:41.000 Yeah, definitely. I mean, once again, Kendall ends up in a bad space, every single episode. He is in bad.
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:47.000 And then, objectively if he's also he's, He's definitely the protagonist.
00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:55.000 From beginning to end. In this story, one protagonist is handled.
00:23:55.000 --> 00:24:00.000 And the antagonist I guess we would assume his dad.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.000 Maybe.
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:09.000 Yes, although he doesn't have much agency but he definitely wins. In the end, and.
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:23.000 Objectively speaking the protagonist is most often connected with the goal of the story and whether or not it's a success, and the antagonist is most connected with the consequence, and whether or not it's a failure.
00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:32.000 And so yeah, I would definitely say like Joe was saying that the consequence would be,
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:50.000 or the antagonist would be Logan because in a story where the goal is tightly connected objectively to conceptualizing, the consequences of failing that would be, understand, that's how that balances out so the protagonist moves towards conceptualizing
00:24:50.000 --> 00:25:01.000 which is Kendall moving towards, you know, the vote of no confidence. And then as his dad begins to understand what's really going on.
00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:13.000 And he at the end that board member is just sitting there like, Oh, this what's going on what the heck is going on here like why are we talking about performance issues that's usually something we don't even waste our time on.
00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:24.000 He like fully takes over and just kills the whole momentum of everything. And yeah like I would say for sure, likely I was saying.
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:34.000 It's definitely a failure bad tragic. I think that's why it works really well too for the midpoint because it's such a clear deviation from that kind of flow that we've been going through.
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:52.000 In the first half, where we went from conceiving to, I would say for sure this is conceptualizing four, five and six, which is interesting because that means four is kind of on its own.
00:25:52.000 --> 00:26:03.000 It's just something that's not completely connected at this. It's like a development of it. Right. And it's small enough that it's not, when you look at all 10, if you just have one.
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:15.000 That's kind of its own standalone thing that's character development. And that's exploring the story, there's nothing wrong with that you're not actually breaking it if you had done maybe another one of where you are in that headspace of beating and then
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.000 then maybe even a third one.
00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:34.000 And then you tried to squeeze in three signposts of the main story form, I think that would be an issue, but just taking time out for this is like, like an X Files like monster episode that kind of stands on its own, and a poet, besides the fact that
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:39.000 in this episode. Logan says I'm back.
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:55.000 Just that logistical thing you could probably skip three to five and six and still be able to tell the same story, the characters won't be as built up, and especially the through line of Tommy Greg would not have been as fully developed so it gives time
00:26:55.000 --> 00:27:11.000 for that. But the idea that you can step away from the story form that you're telling across the first season, just to dip into this for character development for whatever it is that you want to explore and set up maybe down the road.
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:29.000 There's no issue with that because, five and six, work together as such a cohesive unit that you can see the movement from conceding to conceptualizing where it ends in this tragic failure bad moment at the end of that, which is really nice because when
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:46.000 you go conceding to conceptualizing, so if we came back into here and you saw conceiving to conceptualize on this slide here, you know, it can be kind of difficult to understand the difference or appreciate the difference between conceiving and conceptualizing
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:51.000 because they're really similar like wait what's the difference between those two.
00:27:51.000 --> 00:28:02.000 As if you go to here it's like, oh, that's a total deviation if I go from conceiving to being like, Okay, I see what you're saying you're you're going down a different path where we're getting something different.
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:16.000 So for the first six episodes to take this slide here then when you then break it, and I'm not sure if it goes to becoming next or. Next, or maybe it continues the concept, I actually don't think it would be here.
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:25.000 My guess would be that it goes right to being just because it'll be dealing with the aftermath of it, I can be totally.
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:35.000 So conceding the conceptualizing is the first half and then since it's such a huge deviation to the second half, having a completely different outcome.
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:47.000 So failure to go with the bad as opposed to all the success that we've had prior really makes sense in the larger scheme of things so i i don't know if they necessarily did that on purpose.
00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:57.000 But it works intuitively with the way that a story form would work that is telling us grander argument.
00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:01.000 Come back into here. So, all right.
00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:04.000 So we like failure bad.
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:22.000 Um, my question would be, in the first four episodes, we had Kendall as the main characters is really clear he's got a lot of personal issues going on in in for he was the man right like he's like I'm the man and all this stuff.
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:35.000 Did anybody have a sense of that kind of maybe dropping out and five and six or did you still feel that he had some personal issues attached to what it was that he was doing.
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:53.000 Feel like five or six. You felt more like the main character, because the feel, also he feels more active I think we talked about him being more passive and I don't remember if it was three or four which one it was.
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:58.000 But yeah, five it's kind of up in the air for me.
00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:03.000 Anybody else have any thoughts on that.
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:21.000 Yeah, I would say the only thing in five where there's some personal stuff is the thing with his son right and then his wife there obviously he's got that is definitely something that came up, and then maybe, maybe if that's still protecting stuff when
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:29.000 talking to his brother about was going to talk to, to what's his name the guy from vaulter, but I have a feeling.
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:44.000 I mean, this is either dial back, or I don't know if there is a another candidate for main character for five does anybody have any thoughts about that.
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:53.000 Anything.
00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:59.000 Are we just watching him. Most of the time, unfortunately just watching it right.
00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:02.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:08.000 So, and I guess, actually, that works nicely because if if Kendall is here.
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:23.000 And then you and comes in. I wasn't even thinking that this would end up being it here but that he comes in as the influence character basically telling everybody that they're all full of it, that would work nicely because there is a bit of between the
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:28.000 two of them there's definitely some
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:34.000 misunderstandings of what it means to be a part of the family. Right.
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:39.000 Uncle, nephew loops,
00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:52.000 which I think fits really good, really well in with you and Logan too, because there's certainly there's some understanding between the two of them that's, we don't get to know quite yet.
00:31:52.000 --> 00:32:13.000 What is going on, but the balance to something like a conceptualizing objective story would again as in the consequence would also be understand so you would find those same sort of relationship issues here, and understanding.
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:31.000 Alright, so we got and maybe the, the story form will help, just solidify, that is, but if this is one story form then it's almost like in the first half, the main characters just kind of dialed back significantly until until we get towards the end of
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:31.000 the middle.
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:42.000 middle. This would also solidify my mind that there's just one story forum for these two, and that it doesn't feel like it's broken and it feels great, but just that.
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:52.000 You don't need to have, you know, if you're starting out a story form across two episodes. You can slowly dial in the main character tab it play out.
00:32:52.000 --> 00:33:03.000 And also the influence character as opposed to need to be there for the entire time in order to help complete that story to make a complete story form there.
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:07.000 Okay, so then
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:23.000 the other thing I wanted to ask is, well obviously the space time part of it or what dramatic calls the option lock will be the various people that they can get into play and whether or not they get, you know, let's go over who ends up where.
00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:29.000 And then of course when dad takes over at the end, things go south, very quickly.
00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:37.000 What I have here, I put down into what I consider to be the story drivers so data reporting the coffee.
00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:45.000 That hitting footnotes. Logan hitting candles son.
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:48.000 And then the vote of no confidence.
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:53.000 My question is, this is an action.
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.000 Right.
00:33:55.000 --> 00:34:00.000 This here is an action.
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:10.000 But is this not a decision, or is it that template can't make it is the action.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:14.000 Like, I got that sense like it felt like it probably would have gone.
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:16.000 His way he had he not kind of look like an idiot in front of everybody not shown up and all that kind of stuff.
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:22.000 Had he not kind of look like an idiot in front of everybody not shown up and all that kind of stuff.
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:39.000 Yes. And that's, that's not the third driver that would be the final one right, I could see that him not showing up forces other people to change their vote, right, because the sun's not doing it.
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:53.000 Other people change their other people are abstaining because he's not showing up, whereas they were fully prepared to do that so I actually think action would make sense because then that's that's the reason why they voted that way is because he wasn't
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:57.000 there that then forced them to make those decisions.
00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.000 So very good with that.
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:09.000 Okay, so let's go into story for me about it.
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:12.000 And let's look at.
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:16.000 All right, so we like this here.
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:30.000 Um, so, with Kindle being the main character of both, five and six. And then,
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:39.000 who's the influence character in six.
00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:57.000 Maybe like that, that was my original thought is that it got handed off to him, particularly when he calls Kindle over wonder if there is
00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:05.000 any kind of okay so we like this here conceptualizing.
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:19.000 And then it's either past or memory, right. So, assess whether or not. If we saw you in
00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:31.000 influencing through universe or through mind that are that.
00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:38.000 So what I was thinking was that it was, this and that by the end of it.
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:46.000 End of five that Logan's memory comes back because there is something about him.
00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:52.000 Remembering
00:36:52.000 --> 00:37:05.000 know if he if him hitting his son, or hitting the summit, the thing is the midpoint of this story form then signposts three as almost like.
00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:20.000 I'm not sure if it's memory or if they're concerned with his state of mind, that is causing Kendall to, you know, Think about what things were going.
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:28.000 I wasn't really sure how to read that fit with them, remembering if it was almost meant to be like was he faking.
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:47.000 Some of his mental issues or, or just like federal flash memory and felt like he was doing some up to something that really Oh, because I, I felt that it was just his memory was slowly coming back.
00:37:47.000 --> 00:38:03.000 I don't know if they did everybody get the impression that he was faking the coffee and that kind of stuff. I never got, I don't know about the coffee but I like to see, because he doesn't say in the scene like bright leading up to him getting the sun
00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:13.000 he doesn't remember the right stuff but then he almost seems to remember it perfectly later. Maybe that's just getting better, but I don't know, I didn't know how to read it.
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:17.000 That's why I was a little confused.
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:18.000 Yeah.
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:21.000 Anybody have any comments on that.
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:26.000 Okay. Um, so let's look at the issues here.
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:30.000 So for five and six the vote of no confidence.
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:36.000 Does it seem to be the issue that how people are their essential nature's.
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:43.000 The sense of themselves, their emotional circumstances, or the actual situation.
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:49.000 What seems to be the reason for the whole vote of no confidence.
00:38:49.000 --> 00:39:03.000 Hmm. circumstances or situation but I'm not 100% on either. I would go with circumstances or situation to.
00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:08.000 Okay. Yeah, I'm thinking situation so circumstances.
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:26.000 It would be in equities, things aren't quite fair things are unfair things need to be more fair people's awareness and self awareness of themselves and making other people aware of stuff, I could definitely see circumstances and then the difference between
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:35.000 circumstances situations circumstances is the emotional part of trying to figure out how everything works together and and what that feels like.
00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:52.000 Whereas the situation is just logistical. This is not right we got to work our way out of this environment, because of the way things are. And these would be the elements that would be like what's really going on people's perception.
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:56.000 How chaotic things are bringing some kind of order to it.
00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:03.000 That would be this kind of stuff that you'd be dealing with, because I think the objective stories the strongest so I think this is a good place to start.
00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:25.000 And then if it was about people's state of being. Then you have, whether or not people are adapting to the times where they're not they're staying consistent with the way things are.
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:34.000 I hadn't thought of this one's true nature, someone's true self.
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:51.000 Definitely some of that going on with the episode five bunch of vipers and, and that kind of stuff though so I don't know, I, I don't think.
00:40:51.000 --> 00:41:04.000 Yeah, so the. You guys are all a bunch of vipers, you really are. That's a lot of self aware and aware,
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:09.000 trying to think, with the best.
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:17.000 If this is knowledge order.
00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:29.000 Oh, sorry.
00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:35.000 Oh I know we didn't talk about this is the this will help out a lot. I mentally.
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:39.000 This is what's holding it back.
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:47.000 You have a main character, and you have an influence character, which changes.
00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:52.000 That's what's keeping it from being obvious.
00:41:52.000 --> 00:42:00.000 Well let's if it is Kendall does should
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:01.000 approach, or is it pretty much staying on the path.
00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:15.000 Or is he pretty much staying on the path. And then, I presume the influence character is the father
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.000 doesn't feel like Kendall change very much to me.
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:21.000 Right.
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:33.000 I don't also really see the dead changing too much other than maybe getting more explosive dm, but he's already have that tendency so.
00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:39.000 Dad overpowering the copy, I think this is an honest thing I don't think he's faking that is not important.
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:43.000 Yeah, that didn't really seem like it would be faking them.
00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:45.000 Right. So stroke.
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:53.000 What is he doing in the last see
00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:56.000 with this call of the president right now those kind of interesting to me that's like, do you want to talk like complete 180.
00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:06.000 Yeah, those kind of interesting to. I mean that's like, do you want to talk like complete 180. He's now manipulating the president.
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:14.000 He's pretty bad. It just seems like he's done it for 10 other presidents reasons like playing with the ball.
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:34.000 And he's like, you know, making the president Wait, and like, oh hey it's okay no no problem. Feel like if you had somebody that completely changed from where they were here to them where they were here at the end, you took that whole arc.
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:38.000 He's really back in the previous when he said he's back, was that quite there.
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:43.000 Let's say by the end of this he's like fully invested right like.
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:53.000 And he came back because of candles steadfast candles like keep pushing against is just like everybody's up to their own stuff my beans not here.
00:43:53.000 --> 00:44:08.000 I gotta take that sees his brother, who is almost like on his side, gives him a little more strength there. Maybe you NBS is there. So, I would say by the end of it.
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:26.000 That's why I was thinking I wonder if he was in this story form if he was main character, not that the person that has the biggest change has to be the main character and now could but yeah we go to visit him, and they eat hamburgers together from candles
00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:35.000 point of view, so I think he's still in flux card right I would consider him to be the changed influence character.
00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:37.000 So then if I came back here.
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:43.000 That makes it easier because now it's like okay so what is the quality or what's the value of.
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:52.000 Logan moving from create suffering from stroke to then now many of the lady in the president, by the end of it.
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:56.000 And what does that mean for
00:44:56.000 --> 00:45:01.000 everybody else involved, right.
00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:09.000 So, knowledge to thought not really nurse to change, not really.
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:15.000 Let's look at circumstances, equity, and equity to equity.
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:34.000 And all I'm doing is I'm thinking of where Logan was in the beginning with that the stroke victim over pointing the coffee made to him manipulating the president and what feels like the greatest arc here that's been portrayed ability to desire and objectives
00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:43.000 regulation.
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:46.000 I mean maybe because chaos.
00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:49.000 Not being able to wear the cup.
00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:56.000 Right.
00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:26.000 So, I see if it's an extra rally.
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:32.000 Okay.
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:35.000 This is my thing.
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:47.000 So we have the motivation that everybody's that's getting everybody to move on this is the reality that our data is not himself. I mean the reality that's like, Look, you can't deny that.
00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:57.000 Right. It's also the reason why Jerry changes, the reality of like you just hit this kid with a suit can. I'll change.
00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:13.000 Whereas, by the end of it, he's moved into a place where now he's manipulating and creating this perception that he was slow to get into the phone, when really, he's not slow to get into the phone.
00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:28.000 He knew he, he was creating this perception making it appear like, Oh, I'm so sorry but it's okay because he finally moved into this person perceptions fine.
00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:39.000 Now, which would be creating a false perception towards the President, as opposed to dealing with the actual reality of the fact that, hey, I'm actually.
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:46.000 I actually am in a state where I can't deal with this.
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:54.000 The nice thing about that. In this in the way that it works in the rest of the story is,
00:47:54.000 --> 00:48:04.000 if because it's a failure story, the same problem and solution the same motivations that are running through the objective story, are going to be shared by the relationship story.
00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:16.000 That's how you create a failure, a tragic tragedy like that is by matching those two elements in both the objective I look at relationships and the subject of working relationships.
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:19.000 And if you take the brothers.
00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:36.000 There's a lot of self aware awareness at Thanksgiving. It's a lot of like back and forth about that. Also between the brother and Kendall, because there's that self aware awareness stuff going in between the two of them.
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:50.000 Based on this actual reality of what's really going on with this family is really like, which is likely where I saw that state of being is coming in here.
00:48:50.000 --> 00:49:00.000 And then almost like the reality that my son is going against me in the 61, and everybody's got their game going on.
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:11.000 I could see that being reflected there as well. So then, actuality,
00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:41.000 The question is.
00:49:43.000 --> 00:50:01.000 what I'm looking at now is, if actuality is the motivating problem the objective story, I'm just trying to look at where chaos and order so then Kendall would be concerned with chaos and moving towards orders.
00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:21.000 that work nicer here So, does he seem more motivated. His knowledge seem a problem for him, or does inertia seem to be a problem for him, a motivating force.
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:23.000 Anybody have any thoughts.
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:33.000 Oh, my thought was because I sort of skimmed through the first half of the fifth episode, before the meeting.
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:39.000 There's a, there's a silly little scene where can we get on the elevator.
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:42.000 And there are two guys already on the elevator.
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:56.000 And they're kind of, you know, buttering him up, but they're reminding him Oh, were you involved with this data thing and have been. And he says, Yeah, that was me.
00:50:56.000 --> 00:51:05.000 And then the other guy says Oh, were you involved with this the. This was such a great success and Kendall this. Yeah, that was me.
00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:27.000 So, it's kind of he's he's going on his knowledge isn't is that knowledge that he can run the company. I mean it's a little like belief in himself and confidence and stuff but I don't know that that's what I'm reminded of when I see that knowledge.
00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:31.000 Yeah.
00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:51.000 I just have a hard time, even though this is stuff that he did in the past, I would have a hard time seeing him dealing with issues of faith groups, as opposed to suspicion.
00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:57.000 know. We can't just sit around and do nothing.
00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:08.000 We keep going along this path things they're going to get crazy.
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:12.000 Although that doesn't work because then it would be.
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:15.000 I would be change.
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:18.000 Boy,
00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:28.000 kind of random but I was thinking with the message, just overall story but there is a weird subplot with the turkey movie.
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:34.000 There's, there's something that's like perception and that I feel like isn't there.
00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:36.000 Yeah, actually.
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:45.000 This is a good thing no it's not a good thing even though it's making us money and all this other stuff, didn't quite get what they were going for there you have it.
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:49.000 That's right I saw that again yeah that's right.
00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:54.000 I think the idea was like yeah, Roman turned down that film and it ended up being a huge hit.
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:59.000 Right, exactly.
00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:04.000 So if perception is the problem, and then actual reality is the solution.
00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:15.000 Well, there's also like the perception of trying, or I don't know if it's the perception of what the,
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:33.000 you know, that doesn't have it all going together we have to get them out, and then actuality is like, well Kindles not even here, you know, I don't know if that's playing with that or not.
00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:39.000 But their perception the perception that he can't
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:47.000 perform Logan can't perform Logan can't run the company.
00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:52.000 But in actuality,
00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:54.000 he's undermining them.
00:53:54.000 --> 00:54:05.000 It wouldn't it, it would be a failure service actually would never come into play, but I would still I'm trying to think of what the meaning of
00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:20.000 unless it's cable that goes from perception that actually.
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:28.000 I don't know what looking at any of the other dynamics, like, start and stop Bernie the other ones we didn't do help.
00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:32.000 Yes, it's just hard because I'm not sure.
00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:38.000 The characters. So if we went. Let's go back to this.
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:43.000 So that put this here, and then put.
00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:47.000 Let's say this is necessarily right.
00:54:47.000 --> 00:55:04.000 But if candles here.
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:20.000 Does he is he changing by saying, Oh, this is the instead of perception that he just comes out and tells everybody on the phone exactly what's going on and the actuality that comes out but then the dads like screw that
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:22.000 that would work.
00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:33.000 I just feel like Logan has the bigger.
00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:39.000 Then it's still early see him as a change or Kundalini, and all right.
00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:47.000 Unless him him finally speaking up to his dad and his dad saying you had your moment, you had your shot.
00:55:47.000 --> 00:56:00.000 Like you find it came up and said, as opposed to remind them that is true, what kind of vague about everything before kind of denying and before earlier episodes.
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:15.000 Oh, say that again I didn't understand her said, Oh, he I think he was kind of more vague about about this kind of stuff or denying it in earlier episodes like his scheming.
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:40.000 Yes, you're right, he was, he was he was he was he was because he was always trying to placate his father and he didn't want to look like he was going against his father, right and then the steps up and says, he gets out of the car, and he's like he does
00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:42.000 He seems like.
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:49.000 That was the intention. I'm going to beginning though was that he was going to do this total confidence.
00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:54.000 So that seemed like a could be kind of inevitable one.
00:56:54.000 --> 00:57:13.000 Except he was getting other people to do it right, all the different people. So, with that, was that the thing because I kind of got the impression that since he wasn't, I mean again I don't know enough about all business, politics but it felt like he
00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:30.000 was like, if he had been there, everything would have ran a lot smoother but I didn't really hear you saying that maybe he wasn't even planning on like opening or leading everything.
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:40.000 No, I was trying to say is, in order for it to work or to appreciate the story as a chain resolve story. If you saw him.
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:50.000 You know the only reason, the only way he could actually stand up to his dad is to have everybody else around him and voting with him right like we're not doing this unless I get everybody.
00:57:50.000 --> 00:58:05.000 And then he kind of like yeah I am the man and then he finally like stands up to him, even though he's apart from everybody and isolated from everybody who find this speaks up and says, what it is, what he thinks is going on.
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:09.000 What she perceives as being the thing that comes right out and says hey this is what's really happening.
00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:12.000 He's not good for the company is going to kill it.
00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:23.000 And then, that, that is more of a least him getting out of the car and, and going out is more of a newer thing than a beer thing, whereas here.
00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:29.000 It's much more manipulating behind the scenes.
00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:33.000 The only thing is, then
00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:44.000 it is actual reality, or perception.
00:58:44.000 --> 00:59:01.000 So, any of the stuff like I know that's all happening kind of off screen and not super important but like the whole like lockdown situation that has any perception extra quality and is like, is that line where he's like getting on the helicopters like
00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:14.000 well they could shoot us down there were like yeah but not really though right.
00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:20.000 Let's see.
00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:23.000 Or is it.
00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:53.000 Let's change to the membership.
00:59:56.000 --> 01:00:00.000 When you're looking at change to inertia.
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:09.000 Because Kendall wants to get his father out, and
01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:11.000 he doesn't at the end.
01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:15.000 Isn't that change going to inertia.
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:23.000 A formatter methods, it's not like, What's company, more like where they're approaching from.
01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:33.000 So I was just looking at this because there's a lot of conversation about, you know, staying with the old way of doing things like doing all the local TV and all that crap.
01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:42.000 Some kind of change, or I don't think that's as objective as it is.
01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:46.000 It
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:49.000 is it is just him.
01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:57.000 So that.
01:00:57.000 --> 01:01:14.000 Oh, right. So then, either a nurse or change would be his motivating.
01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:19.000 Anybody have any thoughts.
01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:24.000 I mean, if, if, if, Kendall is down in mind here.
01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:29.000 I mean, that, that makes
01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:37.000 sense. I mean, he doesn't he wants change.
01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:51.000 Yes, and then he also gets held back by either substance abuse or false beliefs about themselves or doubt or even criticism from his family or his wife.
01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:54.000 So, that feels right in line. Right.
01:01:54.000 --> 01:02:05.000 It was like a logical perspective.
01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:09.000 Is this perception.
01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:39.000 And the story is perception that means order.
01:02:46.000 --> 01:03:04.000 Well, Let's see if I just did this.
01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:13.000 What I'll do is I'll do this right now let's see the actual.
01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:20.000 Everyone suffers the tragic consequences of understanding.
01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:25.000 Minnesota misunderstood by wants to children when you're going out of your way.
01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:30.000 And
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:37.000 see someone else here she truly is.
01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:49.000 Especially when it calls out is like I see you.
01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:53.000 So let's want to build this.
01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:58.000 That will take quite a while because it's becoming.
01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:00.000 That wasn't.
01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:07.000 That wasn't the main character steadfast
01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:09.000 in this understanding.
01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:13.000 I could. That's why I was explaining
01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:31.000 appreciating his changes being somebody that was kind of working behind the scenes, and somebody who's trying to persuade people through his persona towards it was actually puts himself out there and stands out and takes a shot.
01:04:31.000 --> 01:04:35.000 And fails miserably at it.
01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:42.000 No. Maybe I mean the only other way to do it would be
01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:51.000 if.
01:04:51.000 --> 01:05:04.000 Okay, so if he's steadfast, I still feel like humans influence.
01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:13.000 So the dynamic with a steadfast story if he is steadfast than the relationship between the main character in a story would be stopped as opposed to start.
01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:29.000 Don't think Kendall is dealing with past progress future and present as much as he's dealing with memory pre conscious subconscious unconscious whereas UN is coming from past.
01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:37.000 So if he's steadfast here.
01:05:37.000 --> 01:05:50.000 Guess it is being misled when you get out of your way and that doesn't sound right.
01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:52.000 Right. That is insane.
01:05:52.000 --> 01:06:08.000 So if he's steadfast then that's the work so then this arc here is not so much, where he's coming from but the kind of stuff that he focuses on So the focus and direction of it.
01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:34.000 And I don't think I can see perception that actuality.
01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:37.000 any thoughts.
01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:42.000 All right, about like speculate or rejection.
01:06:42.000 --> 01:07:01.000 Candle from candles perspective. We can do that because I'm wondering about like speculation and projection like because there's a lot of like projection of the oh yeah I'll be able to make it there on time and yeah I just need to do this oh yeah the.
01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:09.000 you know, I have all this control that I don't actually have.
01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:16.000 And so speculation projection as far as like his steadfast and like what he's working towards.
01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:23.000 Yeah, I don't know if I understand everything enough.
01:07:23.000 --> 01:07:30.000 But speculation right okay.
01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:33.000 Well,
01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:46.000 let's leave this one open these two I know it's really close, what can sometimes happen as you get really close and then the next day or two days it's like, oh, that's what it was.
01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:51.000 If it's an equity speculation a projection.
01:07:51.000 --> 01:08:11.000 The problem would be desire and this be ability.
01:08:11.000 --> 01:08:24.000 like, a really weird way to look at it would be if the relationship is here and understanding, then you have these issues of instinct conditions senses and interpretation.
01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:34.000 And there's definitely sensitivities. In the first episode with between the two brothers.
01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:41.000 And there's definitely a census going on with Tom and Gregg, in the second one they're out, eating and all that stuff.
01:08:41.000 --> 01:09:11.000 But the instinct and conditioning.
01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:21.000 unless anybody has anything to add to it might be a stalemate right now.
01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:31.000 Cool. Okay, so everyone suffers the tragic consequences of being misunderstood by one's children when you get out of your way and see someone as they truly are.
01:09:31.000 --> 01:09:39.000 So this would be the tragedy story form with perception.
01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:41.000 As the motivation.
01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:48.000 never really gets to actuality because it's,
01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:52.000 it's a failure.
01:09:52.000 --> 01:10:02.000 And then this finally comes out in the open so as opposed to doing it behind the scenes, actually coming out in the open.
01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:20.000 Feed.
01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:40.000 Wow, that's really good state of being.
01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:47.000 Alright, well I will definitely leave this one up. And what we'll do is we'll come back to it.
01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:55.000 Next week, and it could be like once we see, seven and eight, and go through those might have a better understanding of five and six.
01:10:55.000 --> 01:11:05.000 Certainly, you'll be able to see if it is actually where, where I was thinking of it.
01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:13.000 Because maybe Logan's changes and so much of a change and maybe he's not the actual influence character and it's really just a new one.
01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:18.000 because he definitely has a past history of the family.
01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:23.000 Fate I'm not sure, definitely has
01:11:23.000 --> 01:11:35.000 getting everybody to think about the family. So in other words, somebody that's been motivated from a place of thought.
01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:39.000 musing about the family, getting thoughts to something.
01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:48.000 Being mindful reflecting about a group. I mean, That's where he's coming from.
01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:54.000 I actually think this might be it. I just because of the back and forth.
01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:59.000 I don't have that, like, Oh, this is an amazing one.
01:11:59.000 --> 01:12:17.000 But I think this one would make the most sense in the context of you and as the influence character across both, and then Kendall as the main character, moving from a place of perception, which would be like, Man, you're really good it's been people like
01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:28.000 I do like perception because it's like everybody's, you know, yeah I'll be underside that's totally cool. Yeah, and kind of like feeling it out to see who is in the right spot.
01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:36.000 And then he actually comes out and reveals that he's been behind it the whole time.
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:38.000 Truth.
01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:47.000 When they like would have won their battle had Roman Roman loaded
01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:48.000 direction. Right.
01:12:48.000 --> 01:13:09.000 Right. So that feels like there's there's, I don't know that feels like there's something there too, but the perception actuality, but I don't know because it doesn't, I mean I guess it's true what the problem I'm seeing those things aren't fixed.
01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:20.000 They have to be fixed, then like the perception in actuality because like they could have been dead set on making the decision but then when it came time to actually make the decision they didn't.
01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:23.000 Maybe even vote in the way that they thought they would.
01:13:23.000 --> 01:13:35.000 Would that still be perception actuality, yeah for sure because the motivating force is, Hey, you know, my dad, it's messed up this is really just not the right way to go is going to screw up the company.
01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:49.000 He's messed up this is really just not the right way to go. It's going to screw up the company. And then at the end, everybody is still keeping up appearances like horrible I'm going to abstain, you know, I don't think this is quite the right thing for
01:13:49.000 --> 01:13:52.000 me to do at this time is to vote.
01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:57.000 And the people come out and actually reveal who they are, they're gone.
01:13:57.000 --> 01:14:13.000 But those, especially Roman that's a really great, a great thing to show somebody who's still motivated by perception, you know like, and then Frank's like well I think he was raising his hand No, that's maybe that's what you saw them, you know it's being
01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:17.000 recorded that he's keeping his hand down.
01:14:17.000 --> 01:14:28.000 And I actually like Logan's whole thing of like, what are you know I perceive that people are against me and my being snubbed.
01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:29.000 His.
01:14:29.000 --> 01:14:40.000 If it is the way that we're thinking about it with Kendall being the change character than Kendall is any objective story all about actuality, like the reality of the situation.
01:14:40.000 --> 01:14:44.000 We're as.
01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:51.000 Oh no, it would be you and it wouldn't be as data keep focusing on his dad is the influence character.
01:14:51.000 --> 01:14:56.000 But, dealing with the perception.
01:14:56.000 --> 01:15:03.000 I mean he does have his perception on things.
01:15:03.000 --> 01:15:04.000 Alright.
01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:18.000 Well, this is interesting I knew would be an interesting one because it's clean cut as it should be, but I have a feeling that seven and eight will help.
01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:25.000 Instead of sitting here watching them kind of think my way through it, I'll take the week so think about it and then watch the seven and eight and then we'll go over it.
01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:37.000 And then hopefully have a better context to understand, and it'll be really interesting because you'll see, you know, in a week's time you'll have a completely different viewpoint of these two episodes.
01:15:37.000 --> 01:15:50.000 Not only because you'll have the next to to be able to refer back to but also just because of the time, you'll just think of the story not the actual particular storytelling, and sometimes it's much easier to see the story form.
01:15:50.000 --> 01:16:01.000 In the same way that, you know, when you write a first draft and then you put it away for like five weeks. And then when you come back it's like whoa whoa, like parts of it are going to be really amazing and and other parts of like why did I write that.
01:16:01.000 --> 01:16:11.000 It's going to be the same feeling because it's the same process because you're just thinking of the meaning of the story as opposed to the experience of going through it.
01:16:11.000 --> 01:16:14.000 So, it's an interesting learning opportunity.
01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:16.000 And, okay.
01:16:16.000 --> 01:16:38.000 So does anybody have any questions or anything to build on that.