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              Transcript: When It All Clicks Into Place

              Hello and welcome to the narrative first podcast the only podcast where story is King. I’m your host Jim Hull the voice of narrative first and this is episode 66 when it all finally clicks into place.

              Welcome back everyone to another week of story structure and story analysis. I figured since this is episode 66 “order 66!”. I can’t believe that’s actually something that’s a part of my life. Why did that ever have to happen?

              I figured I’d make this one short and sweet. As punishment for Order 66 the intention is to make it short and sweet. And the reason for it is because I’m way super excited about new features that I’m putting in the narrative first atomizer and primarily last week.

              I was talking about the drag and drop for the different scene construction for the story Builder. and now this week I’m putting in the ability to upload your storyform so that you can work on it in Dramatica figure it all out and then be able to upload it into the atomizer and do whatever you want to with it. So it’s extremely extremely exciting and because of that. All I have time for is to record podcasts.

              I have don’t even have time to actually edit. This one will probably be out in about three or four weeks and by then I’m sure there’ll be something else that’s going on. But I just want to make sure that I keep up the routine recording the podcast and besides last night was the Dramatica users group for Pretty Woman, which is the Julia Roberts Richard Gere big romantic film from the 1980s and I just want to explain my experience with it and hopefully give you a better idea of how Dramatica works when it comes to story when it comes to narrative.

              The Objective Process of Determining a Storyform

              If you take a look at the discussed Dramatica forums in the last week or so there has been a big discussion on whether or not a Dramatica storyform is actually objective and I still feel like this is a confusion over what I use as objective and subjective and it’s not the actual storyform itself. But rather what the storyform is looking at. And for most people who go into write and whether it’s a screenplay or novel the fun part is, you know, getting to imagine the whole thing and becoming the characters and all the stuff that goes into actual writing the fun stuff of writing and from what I would consider to be a subjective point of view of the narrative Dynamics and thematics that go on in a story.

              Dramatica is primarily from outside of all that. It’s not even the experience of experiencing a story. It’s about looking at it from a different point of view.

              In the Dramatica book, there’s the great analogy about the battle on the field and how the overall story is the general up on the hill looking at it. That’s great. When you’re first coming to it and you’re first being introduced to the Four Throughlines and you’re trying to figure out what exactly does that mean. Oh, they’re just different perspectives. Okay. Well, then I assume each of these perspectives when I go in to actually tell my story and that’s not true.

              It’s just an analogy to describe different points of view on the same thing. The dramatic storyform it’s not real. It’s not real life, a story structure is not something that actually happens. It’s something that we apply to life’s events and things that we see in order to get meaning from the things that happen. Events and situations and circumstances, they’re Inherently meaningless. And so what we need to do is to create meaning and we create meaning through our own processes of problem solving and justification. We put that on stuff that happens all around us and we make up stories.

              The Dramatica theory of story actually gives you the code or the framework of how that process works. As Chris Huntley one of the Dramatica co-creators was saying last night at the meeting when you look at a storyform. It’s the whole thing all at once. In reality. it’s an instant. It’s everything you’ve gone through all the different processes all the different ways of looking at this problem. You’ve seen them spatially so, you know how they’re all arranged with each other, but then you’ve also gone through it temporally. And it’s all in an instant. It’s just laid out in storyform so that it’s in a sequential order. So you can’t just do it all at once in a story you need to like. Well, this is chapter 1 chapter 2 chapter 3, but really it’s just like chapter. It’s like all of that, all put together into one single thing.

              The Dramatica storyform combines space and time. That’s the really cool part. It’s got it all wrapped up into one. And the meaning is the combination of those two put together into one seamless appreciation. They’re all called appreciations because it’s really just about appreciating what it is the author is trying to say with their work.

              I t’s not the fun stuff that if you read save the cat or you watch a documentary on hero’s journey or pretty much any of the other really fun screen writing books. It’s not about that. That’s all the fun stuff. Dramatica isn’t fun, but it’s accurate .It’s what’s actually going on there. And you need to have both.

              So in that discussion on the boards, the question is whether or not the actual Dramatica story forming process, if it’s actually objective in nature if the analysis process that we participate in.

              If you’re not aware, every second Tuesday of every month for the last 20 or so years we get together, we used to screen the film right beforehand, but most people watch it the week or weekend before and then we all get together and sort of go back and forth and find out what the most accurate storyform is based on our understanding of the Dramatica theory of story.

              The challenge is to have six or seven Dramatical Story Experts go off and do story forms on their own and then come back and see who has the same sort of thing.

              I know speaking from experience that typically we all get within 80% 90% of what the actual storyform is but there’s always we all have blind spots. I mean that’s what makes us humans. We can’t see everything.

              And the great part about doing it together as a group, is the person who is sitting across the way who maybe understands the Story Driver better than you. Chris never picks the Main Character Growth because that’s a blind spot to him but I know another story expert who knows that Storypoint really well that’s right in his wheelhouse. So the great part about getting together is everybody covers up everybody’s blind spots and you’re able to be more successful be more effective using Dramatica as the Baseline.

              It’s a really really fun process because you’re forced to really think about what it is you’re saying you have to really defend where you’re coming from and to then be challenged by somebody else who sees things a different way and then they have to come back and prove their point.

              The cop out is always well, “That’s just how I see it. This is how I see the storyform and there’s likely a couple different story forms for each film.” Unless there’s different arguments being made trust me there’s only one storyform.

              And the way you know the way you know, when you have the right storyform is when it all clicks into place and I’m telling you there’s a moment when you finally see everything and it really is like Neo being able to read The Matrix when you’re able to look at it and just know oh, that’s the storyform.

              And after the break after the update, I’ll explain what that experience is like.

              Updates to Subtext

              (Note: This podcast was recorded on April 11, 2018. At that time, our story outlining app Subtext was named the “Narrative First Atomizer”)

              As mentioned at the top of this podcast the greatest updates are the updates to the atomizer itself. The updates to the atomizer are amazing. There’s so cool. And what I’m doing is, I’m taking what it is I do consulting, when I consult with other writers, and I’m taking that whole process and putting it all online so that you can do it yourself so that if you can’t or you know, maybe you don’t want to consult with me which is crazy because I really know story and I can really help you out—

              If you if you want to do it on your own, I’m pretty much putting all the processes that I go through all the different things that I work with writers and directors to get their stuff out and I’m putting that into the service itself the biggest thing last week as I was talking about the story Builder and I thought was fun because there’s that ancient old screenwriting software that even I bought back in the early 90s called storybuilder.

              So I have my own story building window. It’s a dream come true of mine where you can actually now and wait for it. It’s 2018. You can drag and drop different sequences in different orders and it’s great because I’ve anchored story drivers to the end of each sign post each structural sign post because you can’t move those.

              Those are what set the next thing. You can’t do a story driver one and then. Then go into the influence character signpost one. You have to move on to signpost Two stuff. And all that’s integrated in and then I even when you go to actually get the outline the whole point of it is to have everybody always ask me. Well, what do I get at the end? The whole point is to have a 12-15 page outline treatment of what it is that you’re trying to write about that you can hand off to your agent. It’s based on the same one that I’ve used to hand off to agents or to producers essentially just describing the entire story in 12 to 15 pages.

              So what I do is even though in this story building window, you know, you have the for structural acts when it comes to the actual thing. I just put it in the typical three act structure that everybody knows of even though before, I was really clever about it where I would split it up, you know. Well, this is only a Two Act film, no this is a three-act film. I think that is just more confusing than it needs to be so I got rid of that part. Maybe I’ll put it back in and another time. Being able to download that and obviously be able to do all those things. So the really exciting part besides having really pretty colors in there now is that you can move stuff around.

              Oh it’s so amazing, but then when I’m working on right now this very second is the ability to just upload a dramatic storyform. So you just print out your storyform story engine settings drag that into the atomizer. It’s going to munch it up figure out where all the different things are and then you’ll be able to do it from there because right now you can only build a story based on other story forms that have already been done and that’s why I keep every week keep adding new and new story forms to keep building up that knowledge base.

              So now if you can’t find one that fits you’ll be able to bring that into there and build your own narrative argument, which I think is the really most important part of understanding what the storyform actually is, the storyform isn’t like describing your story. It’s telling you what your story is about.

              So if you can describe that in the sentence that I have on every single storyform there you know, the narrative argument if you can actually build that yourself and see okay and really just internalize it then when you go to write your story you’ll know exactly what it’s all about.

              So these are all things that I’m really super excited about and now my new catchphrase is super excited, being able to build all that and get it out really quick as it’s great.

              I just love being able to keep updating it and I love there was something I saw on Twitter yesterday about how code being finished is like the lawn being mowed. It’s always always needs to be mowed. And so to always be improved. And I just I love being able to provide that to everybody.

              Dramatica is so complex and so sophisticated that you can get lost in trying to understand what it is. Again. If you go to the board’s a lot of people get lost trying to reinterpret it into a way that really that’s not what dramatic is about. So the atomizer there is like a tool so that you can understand a practical use of it like to be able to actually use it to do something.

              so by the time you hear this podcast that are the those features already be out, they’ll be all refined. Everything will work. So make sure you go to app dot narrative first.com to register and start using the atomizers the very best way to apply the dramatic a theory of story to your next writing project.

              When It All Clicks Into Place

              When do you know when it all clicks? When does it all finally fall into place? And you just have that feeling where you know, oh this this is the storyform. This is the actual storyform and you don’t continue to fool yourself into thinking well, everybody has their own opinion as to what a storyform is and mine’s just as good as yours. It’s not. so how do you know?

              This month’s film for the user group meeting was Pretty Woman. you know, I’ve seen the movie couple times in the past, but I haven’t seen it in a really long time and I meant to see it over the weekend and we put up the trailer on. I watched it two or three times looked at each other or we do we really want to watch this film again. The kids really want to sit through this and instead we picked Daddy’s home Two because Will Ferrell’s my favorite and as a stepdad I can relate to pretty much everything in those films.

              So yes, even though that was a seventeen percent completely enjoyable. No storyform. It just is fun. And so we didn’t watch Pretty Woman and I thought it would be fun to see if I can figure out the storyform without having seen the film in probably 20 years and it turns out I was able to.

              And all I was going off of I went off the trailer and I went off my memory my memory of the experience of seeing the film and there’s something that Chris is explained and this is the first time that I’ve experienced it from like a major distance, you know, you just if you want to find the storyform for your story just wait 15 years and you can come back to it.

              The more distance you put between the experience of the film and your reflection on it and trying to understand the story or even if it’s your own work the more distance you can put between that the less you’re apt to fall into the Trap of the storytelling of being wrapped up in the experience of it. All you’re faced with all you’re left with are the key story points the key moments the stuff that is the most important when It comes to the actual structure of the narrative what the narrative actually means what it’s communicating.

              And in the case of pretty woman that was really clear. There were some clear moments key moments in my head that just stood out and I went off that to kind of build the story for my head and just sitting on the couch because I was trying to determine what again whether or not I should before I show up. And I started to figure out my head looked at the atomizer to figure out all the different how everything’s hooked up. And yeah, okay. There’s a storyform there.

              I didn’t know how strong the storyform was until after last night. Once we were starting to go through it and everybody started to point out things. That were actually attached to it. It’s an amazingly strong storyform and probably something that I’ll use in is as an example to go through and actually do all the gist for it because it’s just it’s so pure it’s so so strong what it is.

              My process—I’ll just describe the process of storyforming in my head how i was able to come up with storyform for it. So you can understand where I’m coming from and pay special close attention to what it is that I’m looking at. I’m not talking about what the characters are thinking about and I’m talking about their wants and needs. I’m not talking about silly nonsense like that. I’m just talking about where the problems are from a dispassionate from just an analysis point of view. Like whoa. Okay. Let’s just look at the conflict are not I’m not in it. I’m not feeling it. I’m not experiencing it. I’m just like looking at it going. Oh, that’s what it is.

              So the very first thing I start out with was the shopping sequence, right the whole dream the whole fantasy is I’m a hooker and I’m not a hooker, but I’m a hooker and Richard Gere. Comes along who I guess is super handsome and he’s going to give me all the credit cards in the world and I can go buy a bunch of clothes and everybody’s going to have to listen to me because I got money. That’s the thing that stood out the most to me and the thing that I remembered of course, that’s a major part of the trailer.

              Instantly I thought okay relationship story through line in physics as it’s about shopping. It’s about doing things and their Journey towards all the stuff that they do together as their relationship is what where the problems are the that’s the that’s the substance of their meeting. That’s a substance of their grouping is the physics the physical part of it and again, physical part, so then this ties into the second aspect of it, which is the physical part. That’s a very typical genre set up for narrative.

              When Dramatica looks at genre. It’s looking at the arrangement of the domains of the four through lines the main character influence character overall story and relationship story. The typical arrangement for a Marvel comic super hero movie is overall story in physics, and the main character in universe. That’s the same setup that you find in Star Wars kung fu panda is very action adventure oriented set up main character in Universe because they’re a doer and they have some something that they’re dealing with that that’s very much about who they are in the world. And then the big picture is all the physics stuff. That’s what everybody goes to see the film.

              So it’s almost like you’re looking at the storyform to see what it is. What are you writing about? Out I’m writing about all the fun stuff you’re diving into the psychology of all the characters in figuring out. This is what is this story exploring. What is it looking at? What is it dealing with and in a typical action adventure film is dealing with a lot of conflict through punching and kicking and fighting all the physics stuff.

              Your typical coming-of-age film like last week I was talking about I Tonya. Has the overall story in Psychology and the main character in Universe. Not that pretty women is a coming-of-age story, but it is a coming story. It’s well, it’s a becoming story where there is growth in people’s relationships and the way they think about things.

              I guess you could call it a romantic comedy. The overall story is in Psychology and they put the relationship story quite naturally in physics because if you’re dealing with romance and physics, you’re dealing with a lot of physical stuff that goes on including all kinds of kissing and groping and all that stuff. Not Jason Alexander groping not that there’s anything wrong with that.

              The physics of the relationship is what people want to see that’s what they expect and so that’s how the narrative is set up. That’s the genre setup of that narrative.

              Something that’s more dramatic or more more play oriented puts the overall story in mind because you can deal a lot more readily with what people are thinking what they actually think about stuff. Because there’s all kinds of monologues and soliloquies, and you know, they say exactly what they’re thinking so that’s great for that medium.

              My first clue was the relationship itself, you look at pretty woman. And their relationship with the shopping the dating the I think they’re in a bathtub it sometime it was funny because I could only remember certain aspects of it. And I only remembered parts of the story when we’re going over story points where it was like, oh, yeah. I remember that part and it was really fun to see that.

              So the first inclination was the relationship story is in physics the end this genre that fits good in there. It was my second clue and then of course the third clue the most obvious was her being in Universe because she’s very much everybody looks down on her because they just assume well, this is a hooker so a prostitute so, you know, we can prejudge her because based on who she is, of course, it’s Julia Roberts. So I don’t see too many prostitutes like that. Not that I see a lot of prostitutes in LA, but she stands out because of her role her job.

              So that was my first clue the genre setup has the main character and universe overall story in Psychology. I couldn’t remember what Richard Gere’s mind thing was but it came out to be super obvious. He has this huge fear of high places which I completely forgot but obviously makes sense at the end when he climbs the staircase which again fits perfectly. It’s a natural thing, right?

              It almost feels like pretty woman was written with Dramatica five years before Dramatica was even a thing. Because the storyform is incredible how accurate it is and how it all clicks into place. So that was my first click. Where’s like, okay, these all feel really really strong at least three of them that I knew of felt super strong.

              So the next step down was where the concerns were now, so this is the 80s and so the neon quad what I like to call the neon quad for the 80s. The lower left that is the the concerns of future obtaining becoming an inner most desires. That’s very much all about the 80s.

              Right now, we’re dealing with the lower, right. You know, we’re dealing with learning and conceiving and we’re in a present situation that we don’t know how the heck to get out information overload, right? Conceiving. All that stuff’s the lower right.

              At the turn of the century was when everybody’s freaking out about Y2K that was all about the past. Understanding, conceptualizing and memory that’s when you get all those cool mind game films, like what the heck’s going on here perception and actuality.

              I think the 70s I forget where but the upper right which are the doing the being, the progress. That’s the last one and I really believe that it’s a generational thing where every 20 years it switches quads and there’s a great new tool that somebody put online where you can actually go through and see the Fallout of story forms according to decade which to me is brilliant and I want to make that part of the atomizer because it’s really really cool. It’s awesome.

              So the Neon quad for something like pretty women. I I knew it had to be future just because of my sheer experience of how many times I’ve seen story forms. Crossing 400 story forms been doing it for a really long time. So I just knew that this was something to do with the future obtaining becoming an inner most desires. I felt that was the strongest I wouldn’t even consider any of the other ones at all. It just it has to be there. It’s pretty women.

              So then once you know those concerns that’s more of a gut intuition. I’m not sure if that’s actually where it clicks into place the click the second click. The big one is the next thing which are the issues.

              Instantly I jumped to her being the main character her issue of preconception because if there’s anything that she deals with in the entire film its all the preconceptions of who a prostitute is what she’s about and well, well, you can’t be in here that whole thing.

              And I know without even looking at anything that underneath preconception you have hinder and help in control and uncontrolled and I wasn’t really sure which one was there. Except to say that in a steadfast main character through line the steadfast character shares the same focus and direction as the overall story through line. They actually that’s where they connect that’s where the crucial element is between the main character and the overall story are the focus and Direction because the focus is on the actual work that needs to be done.

              So with hinder and help I then went down into psychology and I know that hinder and help because they stay in the same place are under obligation for becoming and that’s when it clicked partly because of the storyform for Nebraska and I remember at the weekend Workshop when we went over it. I didn’t think it was an obligation, but then when we actually talked about it more it actually ended up being there.

              So when I got to obligation for some reason just click like oh that’s what it has to be. It has to be obligation, but I couldn’t remember what the other two elements were with help and Hinder. I knew it had to have been well, I did know the elements. I do know the elements under responsibility are control uncontrolled conscience and temptation. Like I said, I was raised Catholic. So those four are super familiar to me.

              I also know from experience that commitment has pursuit avoid faith and disbelief. So that only leaves two choices for hinder and help it has to have either logic and feeling or support and oppose. I mean this is really inside baseball. But because I know logic feeling consider and reconsider are underneath approach in obtaining there’s no way that logic and feeling are in the same position in Psychology.

              Elements are always moving around there are certain elements the same place but logic and feeling are moving around all over the place. It had to have been logic and feeling. While I originally wanted her problem to be uncontrolled because I just felt like she just wanted to be free or free like that’s just her Drive is free. what that does is if you actually choose her problem is free that would set his problem to feeling and his change his meaningful change into logic in that that’s not there’s no way that it’s the other way around. It’s very rational. This is how things are done. It’s just business right that the only part I remember was that he was taking over some company some business. It’s just business. That’s what it’s all about. And then at the end he gets a heart or it’s like oh, that’s nice. So logic to feeling and the only other part I remember is Jason Alexander trying to rape her because there were deals Like Richard Gere was screwing him out of some deal and that felt like an issue of obligation and that’s when it all clicked into place for me because when you set the overall story problem, which also turns out to be the influence character problem to logic or rational thinking that sets her problem to control and that actually makes more sense because if she was free to do whatever she wanted to do she would be okay. The problem is when people try to control her. And there’s all kinds of references to you know, well you think you’re giving me everything but really you’re just controlling me the whole time and that’s what sparks her fires if anybody tries to control her to mess with her.

              So that’s the actual storyform that I came up with without even seeing the film for 20 years without even just seeing the trailer. That’s the actual storyform that I came up with and it actually turned out to be the storyform that everybody agreed on was the strongest one the one that encapsulated all the narrative Dynamics the problem with the idea that well. I got my storyform. It’s just as good as your storyform is that it will always always be deficient in some way or another to one singular understanding of the story. There will be one that stands out as being more accurate.

              For instance last night, there was questions about well whether action or decision were the story driver and I couldn’t remember story drivers not my strong suit. I mean know how it works, but it’s not something that I always look towards and I just let Dramatica pick it and it’s like, okay. Well, I’ll just go with that. Ninety percent of time it’s action anyways, so I wasn’t really sure what that was. And as we were going through, you know, the story driver affects signpost order. So as we’re going through the signpost order, I just made the suggestion. Well, what does it look like if we change it to action because everybody unanimously agreed that it was decision. Which sounded right? So, let’s see what it looks like with the action.

              So you switch to action and all of a sudden it looks so wrong you look at the progression, you know, you get this like feeling of time this time progression through the four signposts and you just look at these compared to the other setting when you switched it to decision and there’s just no comparison. They don’t even you just like oh, this is the right story.

              That’s the kind of thing. That’s why that that group dynamic why that’s so great because there is one accurate telling that just feels right. Not only is it logically correct but you’ll be able to come up with rational arguments as to why you see these story points here. But it also has that intuitive feeling gut feeling like, oh no that that feels right that feels like the actual story. This storyform that I’m looking at is telling me the story like I can see it there. It’s all there.

              Just setting those things that we talked about the she steadfast right because he change. The linear problem solving style decision option lock success and good because it’s a very triumphant ending. So there’s no darkness to it, Dramatica the story expert automatically shows you the unique abilities and critical flaws for the main character the influence character the Catalyst and inhibitors for the relationship and the overall story and it’s amazing like her critical flaws as his attitude, which is great, you know, her attitude like whoop, whoop. All that stuff is like what kind of lessens her ability to actually make anything happen. In other people’s attitudes towards her the one that really stood out to me, which is like this is the storyform when it clicks like oh, yeah. This is it is the unique ability for Richard Gere character of dream like he represents this whole dream Fantasy Life. Like he’s the whole dream. It’s everything like you could have everything you ever wanted and that’s his unique ability to be able to get her to change but it gets reduced it gets minimized because of his critical flaw of obligation because he’s paid for her, right? So she’s kind of obligated to be a part of this dream and that’s just yucky. Like she doesn’t want to be a part of that and this is what Dramatical picked.

              It’s like with this is the story you want to tell well, guess what? These are the unique ability and critical flaw of the influence character and that fits so perfectly that’s it. You could not find a better combination of two variations that works as well with all the other story points that you find out in all the other through lines.

              Eventually Dramatica forces you into choosing one storyform you can’t have everything, you know, you can’t explore it all and be super evenly balanced and come up with anything meaningful. It’s like if you’re going to tell this kind of story this is the stuff that you’re going to deal with and these are the variation the thematic parts of your story that are there pushing it in and pulling it back.

              For their relationship story problem of support, the problem in their relationship what actually creates that relationship is this like supportive. I’m supporting you I’m taking care of you sort of thing, which is good in one respect. But then also like what kind of relationship is this and it’s not until she actually turns him down and rejects him that their relationship actually resolves. It gets to a better place when she opposes at the end that that relationship that relationship that was built on this sort of like, I’m just. Take take care of you and just sort of you know, their relationship story concern of obtaining because she’s a possession.

              So that’s another thing where if you look at the storyform and you’re thinking of it like oh this is a an argument between two people and they’re obtaining. What are they trying to obtain together? Why what is it hard for them to obtain together? You’re thinking from the point of view of the characters. That’s not it.

              Obtaining is a obtaining the achievement. The possession of something is a problem in this relationship. So he’s actually possessing her and she doesn’t want to be possessed and he likely doesn’t want to possess her like but just the fact that that acquirement that grasping on that holding on is where the conflict is that matches the conflicts in the other through lines like everything all pulls into one. All wraps up into one complete story.

              And you know, they’re inhibitor of preconception which again that also flows into her own personal issues, but also the preconception of like will this is this what we’re doing here, isn’t this what we’re all about?

              The Dramatica storyform when it all clicks into place when you finally see everything all at once there is just a feeling that you get there is this resonance and it happens with every person.

              Everybody that goes through the Dramatica story expert certification process, which you take a film and you work your butt off trying to figure out the storyform not only that and then you have to encode every single story Point eventually they find when it all clicks, they find that storyform and they’re like, oh, that’s it. I see it.

              And when you get to that point when you’re actually able to see story in this way, that’s when you’re able to separate yourself from the experience of writing your story and to separate yourself from the problems of like not knowing what it is you’re doing or where you’re going.

              Part of that is good when it comes to actually writing because you actually have to write it and actually do the whole thing and actually put it all out there and and see what you have. But if you want to actually figure out what it is that it’s about you need to be able to separate yourself from it.

              Now, you can wait 15 years and it’ll be really super clear to you what’s wrong with your story and I’m sure you’ve probably experienced that. But if you don’t want to wait 15 years you can become more familiar with this feeling of when it all clicks into place to be able to Simply watch a trailer and know the exact storyform to know exactly everything that goes on there.

              I think maybe there were some people last night who thought maybe the overall story was in Physics. And I haven’t even seen the film and forever. And I know that that just doesn’t feel right. It’s like no, there’s all kinds of manipulations going on inside isn’t it about takeover business takeovers and stuff. It’s about like manipulating and playing those games in the boardroom or whatever that kind of stuff that’s going on.

              That to me that is very clearly psychology and that again just goes back to the understanding of the genres and how domains are arranged in different genres different kinds of narratives.

              So when you can get to that place when you can finally feel it all click, it’s really cool. It’s really exciting because when you you’ll pick like I did where you pick the overall story and maybe the main character and then when you start diving down and then you see all the different connections between the different through lines than when all wraps up and then you’re presented with the storyform where his unique ability is dream. Like he’s dreamy this computer program this theory of narrative says, hey this uber popular film that launched some people’s careers and was a huge rocket hit. Hey, do you want to do the same kind of story? Well, I’m just saying I’m just a computer program, but I’m telling you you need to make your influence character dreamy and he’s all about, you know, creating this fantasy life. But if you want to make him seem more like a jerk have him play into the whole obligation thing. I’m just saying I’m just a computer program. I’m just making the suggestion but hey, you might want to do that.

              And that’s when it all clicks into place.

              So that does it for this week’s podcast if you have any questions about anything. Feel free to write to me at narrative first.com contact make sure you check out the atomizer at app dot narrative first.com. I hope you have a great week of writing. This wasn’t anywhere near as short as I thought it was going to be, but hey, that’s what happens. Have a great week and I’ll see you next time.